General Discussion

The new $105k Aurora Horn system by Aries Cerat. Audio Art? You be the judge.

Aries Cerat - Aurora Horn

Hi Janet,

Thanks for joining the discussion. B&O is also known for their innovative speakers like the BeoLab 5

and the more recent Beolab 90

all very futuristic and interesting concepts.

BTW... I updated your post and added your images. Hope you don't mind.

This is an easy one for me. I came across this beauty of a turntable and it made one of those unforgettable “wow” impressions on me. The website devoted to it (onedof.com) goes into the details of its development and its developer and that information only added to my positive impressions of it. It helps that Michael Fremer seems to have liked it too. I wish I could afford it!

I’ll also add a second candidate. I bought a Bang & Olufsen Beogram 4004 turntable way back in the 80s and though I can’t remember the exact details I’m almost certain I took one look at it and it had an immediate “wow” factor effect on me. I knew right away I had to have it. It was a considerable splurge at the time and no doubt that’s one reason why it is still hanging around even though it has been superseded by a decent Rega RP 40 Anniversary Edition but I miss the pleasure of using the Beogram and I’m planning to send it off to a specialist for a going over that will return it to use.

There’s a back story on the B&O 4000 series turntables. Just 2x3 years ago B&O quietly bought up all the 4000 series turntables they could find and completely renovated them and added a couple of modern features. They put an $11,000 price tag on them and apparently to their surprise, they quickly sold out. I could send my 4004 to the factory in Denmark and for $6000 get an almost identical renovation, but I’ve opted to take a less expensive option.

Janet

Estelon Extreme Mk II

Hi Larry,

I'd love to have been able to provide a link to the article I originally read on this topic- but it is from so long ago there's absolutely no hope that I would be able to dredge it up from my memory, actually find the article, and post it here. I do remember looking into this when Oracle came out with the granite plinth as I considered upgrading at that time. That's got to be around 20-25 years ago.

Of course, some of the claims for resonances, reflected or otherwise, and that impact on the sound you hear would be hard to compare. I've only seen one comparison of different turntables with the same arm and cartridge, and that was actually three different turntables by the same manufacturer.

Who knows, maybe there's a YouTube video comparison of two Oracles, one with granite plinth and one without? Of course, I think you should listen for yourself rather than just going buy a YouTube review. And who knows, maybe the difference in sound is not something that would be audible to most people and it would simply come down to an esthetic preference?

Cheers,

David

Hello David,

While I would have appreciated a link to the specific article you read on the topic, your summation of the issue with granite does make sense. That said, it begs the question, "Why did Oracle choose granite for its Reference table?", which is a question for the designer.

BTW... On your suggestion, I did enter your search and found a variety of opinions on the topic, but nothing concrete (pun intended). I did, however, come across an interesting article on creative plinths.

(Click to read)

I also found one tangentially related article particularly informative. But it only covered air, and ground-borne vibrational energy, rather than mechanical turntable motor vibrational energy reflected back to the platter, to which I believe you are referring.

Yes, you absolutely can post comments without pictures, and thank you for your materials densities insight!

Hmm. Am I allowed to post here without a picture?

Re. "increasing the mass of a turntable base, plinth, and/or stand generally results in an improvement", just a quick observation that mass densities in gm/cm^3 are

Granite 2.75

Glass 2.5

Steel 7.75

Aluminum 2.7

So in terms of density, granite is "nothing special". In addition to density, stiffness and damping also matter, a lot. I *suspect* that granite has better damping than any of the other three in their "pure" states. Of course, the other three can be applied in conjunction with additional damping strategies.

Hello, Jazzfan,

The easiest thing for you to do might be to do a search for "granite plinth turntable not ideal", as I did. Of course, ideal for me might be different than ideal for you. The gist seems to be that granite, like marble, can reflect vibrations back to the platter. While generally thought of as a bad thing that could contribute to "distortion in the groove", I suppose that might be something some people could prefer the sound of- kind of like a higher distortion SET tube, perhaps?

And, while I also have a larger platter/plinth TT, (https://sfaf.clubexpress.com/content.aspx?page_id=5&club_id=794405&item_id=81560&) many people and reviewers have raved about Rega's RP8 skeletal plinth TT.

As always, YMMV.

Cheers,

David

Hi David, rightly or wrongly, I've been of the opinion that increasing the mass of a turntable base, plinth, and/or stand generally results in an improvement, not degradation, of sound. I formed this opinion based on observations of turntable systems produced in the past, like the

Goldman Reference turntable

and Rockport Technologies turntable,

and more recently, the ~728lbs TechDAS Air Force Zero, all examples of over-engineered works of art.

That said, I'm surprised that granite is a less-than-optimal material for a turntable base. Please provide a link to an article where I can learn more about the negative effects of granite used in this application.

And from what I've read, the granite base is not the best sonic base to have. But it would look solid... as a rock.

A Delphi MkVI Reference with its granite base on top of a 2" slab of granite on top of an HRS equipment rack would be a marriage made in heaven. That combo would likely withstand the next Bay Area 7+ magnitude earthquake. Unfortunately, my Oracle dust cover didn't survive the Loma Prieta 1989 quake.

The Oracle Delphi is the first turntable I fell in love with. Unable to afford one I had the spindle on my Thorens TD160 Super modified to accept an Oracle clamp and purchased that and an Oracle sticky mat. I loved my Thorens- util I could afford an Oracle, then in the MKV designation. I still kind of wish I'd never sold my Thorens, but I still have my Oracle in one of my systems, now with the Turbo Power Supply and a Tri-Planar MKVii tonearm.

I think it goes well with the Stillpoints rack.

note: this pic was taken before I swapped in the Tri Planar :-)

Good choice of classic pieces.

I'm biased, but here's another classic, an Oracle Delphi Mk.II /w a Zeta tonearm and Monster Alpha Genesis 1000 MC cartridge. I rebuilt the suspension and cartridge, and I've had it for years although I listen to digital more than analog these days.

The Lecson AC1 preamp, seen here with the AP3 power amp. A 1970s design by Allan Boothroyd (industrial design) and Bob Stuart (electronics), who went on to found Meridian.

About the same time Bang & Olufsen came up with gorgeous hard-edged brushed aluminum designs with rosewood sides, especially the linear tracking Beogram, which tried to make playing records into a space-age operation (though every Beograms' aluminum platter rang like a bell).

Meanwhile you gotta love the typography and symmetry of classic Marantz receivers (this is a still from "Everybody Wants Some!!", Willoughby the 30-year-old hi-fi nut still transferring between colleges).

I remember the Spica's. Sonically, well regarded, if I recall. The design aesthetics was a definite departure from most other speakers of its day.

As far as geometric shapes go, I've always felt the Goldmund Apologue would be stunning in the right environment.

OK, how about the opposite of eye candy? :-) When it comes to gear that I've owned, the one with the most polarizing aesthetics has to be the Spica Angelus speakers. I had them for about 5 years in the 1990s, and visitors compared them to bow ties, nuns, droids, aliens, among other things. My first "audiophile" speaker, which I discovered thanks to Stereophile writer Sam Tellig.

Yes, I think you could put the entire OMA catalog in this category.

But really, I think my favorite Beatle is Ringo- just because it's too hard for me to choose between John and Paul- and not to slight George! Synergy. The Four Lads combined to make the greatest catalog of music.

Impossible, right? That's like trying to name your favorite Beatle. Okay, it's John. 😜

In the meantime, while we wait for others to join the conversation, here's an art worthy piece from Oswalds Mill Audio (OMA).

OMA Ironic

This limited edition (only ten pairs) open baffle speaker is made with a one piece 3D diffuser panel cast in "hypo eutectic gray iron (high graphite content)" to reduce resonance. The Ironic is a two-way system that includes a 15" electrodynamic or field coil woofer and a custom RAAL ribbon tweeter.

Yes, that TT is eye catching. I look forward to seeing what other pieces of gear get nominated by our members- while I workout which of my audio gear children is my own favorite. :-)

David